The Great AI Unraveling, Part 2: Tiokasin Ghosthorse & Pooja Prema

This is the second gathering in SAND's ongoing series on AI and the human spirit — and it takes a deliberately different rhythm. Rather than asking "is AI safe?" or "will it take our jobs?", Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Pooja Prema invite us to slow down and ask the deeper questions: What cosmology is AI extending? What is intelligence, really? And what happens when the earth-based, organic, living intelligence of Indigenous and ancestral ways of knowing gets replaced by a synthetic one? A spacious, felt-sense conversation that asks us to remember what a living mind actually is.

Timestamps

• 00:00 — Welcome & framing the deeper questions
• 00:04 — Opening body practice: tuning into felt sense before speaking
• 00:07 — Tiokasin: AI as the latest ship on the shore — colonization in a new form
• 00:17 — "There is no artificial intuition" — what technology cannot replace
• 00:18 — Pooja: the cosmology behind AI — colonial linearity vs. the curving motherboard of Earth
• 00:25 — AI as the latest savior narrative — and why that story keeps repeating
• 00:45 — Who owns the data? Who controls the intelligence? The politics of AI
• 01:05 — AI as therapist, AI replacing elders — the cost to young people and mental health
• 01:10 — Ghost in the Machine: how to resist empire over the long game
• 01:15 — Closing: "Our body is the mystic" — an invitation to make this a living inquiry

Guests

Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation and lifelong Indigenous activist. He is the founder and host of First Voices Radio, which broadcast for 33 years before its final episode in July 2025. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016, is a National Native American Hall of Fame nominee, and a master musician who performs worldwide. He describes himself simply as "a perfectly flawed human being." He is also featured in SAND's film The Eternal Song.

Pooja Prema is a first-generation Indian American writer, multidisciplinary artist, and ritualist from Kerala, South India. Her work weaves ecofeminism, decolonial somatic practice, and animistic cosmologies. She is the founder of The Rites of Passage Project and The Ritual Theatre. Her work has been featured at the Kennedy Center, Ebony Magazine, and NPR.

Resources & Links

Tiokasin Ghosthorse

• Akantu Intelligence — website
• First Voices Radio — archive
• Featured in The Eternal Song — SAND film

Pooja Prema

• Website: poojaprema.com
• The Rites of Passage Project
• The Ritual Theatre
• Instagram: @thecabinwitch

Film referenced

• Ghost in the Machine — documentary directed by Valerie Veatch, Sundance 2026 — traces the buried history of AI and its roots in eugenics, racism, and colonial power. Featuring Tasheka Lavann on how indigenous nations are resisting data centers and how we resist empire over generations.

Concepts discussed

• Conspecific aggression — Tiokasin's term for what happens when a species competes so aggressively over shared resources that it turns on itself
• Present-phobic language — technology as a tool for escaping the present into an imagined future
• The real motherboard — Pooja's framing of Earth and cosmos as the original curving, relational, non-linear intelligence that AI's linear grid cannot replicate

SAND series context

• Part 1 of The Great AI Unraveling — with Tristan Harris
• The Eternal Song — SAND film series

Contact SAND

• podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

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