Zaya Benazzo: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone. We are so glad you're here today. As we are living through times of profound disruption, political, ecological, spiritual, many of us feel in our bodies, in our communities, in our nervous systems, in the moments between the noise disoriented, and we are asking the question, what is mine to do?
And we still have each other, and we choose together and sit with the difficult questions. So we are very grateful for your presence and for the [00:01:00] amazing speakers strong powerful voices that have offered their time and wisdom and energy to be here with us today, Dr. Lila June Kaira Jewel and Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg. And today we'll have our dear friend, and SAND member Rae Abileah, holding the space for this conversation. And Rae, welcome Rae. And Rae is, um, Jewish Faith Leader, an activist organizing span movements for justice for Palestine, for land, for community. And earlier this year, Rae, you join also the clergy across the country in a powerful act of solidarity in Minnesota, which we'll touch on.
And you also work. Rae works also for Beautiful Trouble, nature [00:02:00] Conservancy and all Latino farm worker led organizations. So please join me in welcoming Rae.
Rae Abileah: Thank you Zaya. Uh, welcome everyone. Grateful to be here holding space for this conversation among three people who are legendary leaders in my heart and mind.
As Zaya mentioned, I'm Rae she, her pronouns. I'm joining you from Unseed, AWA speaking, OPI land here, also Colonially known as Santa Cruz, California. And before we begin, I wanna invite us to arrive together just to take a few breaths, might take a slow breath in, and thank yourself for showing up and a slow breath out.
And thank each other for showing up. Breathing in, sending healing to any places of discomfort in your own body and [00:03:00] breathing out. Sending care to those facing violence, hunger, displacement, and fear.
Breathing in, may I be well? Breathing out, may all beings be well. Welcome. Self-care and collective care, both necessary for life. As Iia mentioned, we're here to explore what becomes possible when spiritual practice and movement practice are not separate. And when we move from isolation to collective courage and we're gathering at a time of unraveling, I don't need to name that.
I think many of us are feeling it in our bodies. We're feeling the planet crying out as temperatures are rising. And from Gaza City to Tehran to Minneapolis, we're witnessing occupation and state violence intensifying. [00:04:00] And then we're navigating these algorithms that are fracturing our attention and our trust.
My teenage neighbors protest sign last week when she was walking out of school a couple weeks ago, read the wrong Ice is melting The wrong Amazon is burning. I woke up this morning thinking about the word apocalypse and how it means unveiling, lifting the veil. And we're living in this time of revealing feels important to name at the beginning of this conversation.
The, the Epstein ruling class power networks that are being exposed, the abuse of power, the systems that are. Have been long protected and are, are, there's cracks, right? And we're feeling this unraveling in our nervous systems, in our bodies, in our sleep, in our grief. So we're gathering with the intention today of not just reacting to the latest headline, but of really grounding ourselves in [00:05:00] thinking about how are we building, what is life giving amidst this time of collapse?
And how do we move from overwhelm toward having steady courage? And as Zaya asked, what is mine to do? What's my, what's my role in this moment? And we're honored to be joined by three extraordinary teachers who will help us to explore how ancestral wisdom, spiritual practice, and block by block organizing can help us and guide us now.
And I'll offer brief introductions for each of the three of you. And I'm grateful to Lisa for putting full bios into the chat. Welcome to Lila June, who is an indigenous musician, scholar, and community organizer of Dine Cheyenne and European lineages. Forgive me for my lack of pronunciation on on the Cheyenne community.
Her research and teaching illuminate how pre-colonial [00:06:00] indigenous nations cultivated, abundant regenerative food systems and how those wisdoms traditions can guide us today. And of course, Lila June's music carries medicine for these times. Welcome, RA Jewel Lingo is a senior Dharma teacher in the Plum Village Zen tradition and a Pasana teacher.
She works in engaged Buddhist lineage of Tik Han and draws inspiration from her father's work with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. She's a author of, we Were Made for These Times and Healing Our Way Home. But you have to read the whole titles of these books because just the titles are poetry. And I'm moved Kyra by your fierce commitment to both deep silence and also to breaking the silence and talking about justice and for our kinship and sharing a, a teacher.
And Ty, welcome and. Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg is a rabbi, organizer and ritualist based on Dakota Land in Minneapolis. She's co-author of [00:07:00] for Times Such as These, and author of Introduction to Trauma, healing and Resilience for Rabbis Jewish Educators and Organizers. And she's a member of the Jewish Voice for Peace rabbinical counsel.
And I recently had the honor of organizing alongside her in Minneapolis with our rabbis for ceasefire, clergy contingent. So I wanna, again, thank you all for being here. Uh, I'll be sharing some questions to get our conversation going, and I welcome you to be in direct conversation with each other.
And Lila, do you, and I wonder if you would want to begin?
Dr. Lyla June: Sure. So greetings, my relatives and my family and my people.
I'm from the clan of the nation. We are also incorrectly known as Navajo.
Uh, my other clans are Southern [00:08:00] Cheyenne and Scottish. And my mother's both her parents are dne, so they're from the Nini clan and the Salt Clan. So we always introduce our clans before we speak. But anyways
so in that manner I present myself as a, as a DNE woman. I'm really happy to be here with all of you. And so, to answer your question, how do I not collapse into a heap of a puddle of, of a tear or tears? I'm actually not too worried because the creator is in charge, if you will. And I know that might sound.
Asinine to some folks who are like, wait, what? That doesn't make sense. If creators in charge, why would creator make such a world as this? And I, and I don't think it's, it actually can, the two can coexist because creator made us to be free to do wonderful things, then whatever things. And some of us are using our free will to do terrible [00:09:00] things.
But that doesn't mean that at any point in time, creator can't, give us some loving lessons of what doesn't work and what does work. And I'll give a really brief example. So the net people, this picture behind me know, is our desert. Uh, Thea. We have a ancient city here called Chaco Canyon.
And this, uh, city flourished from around 800 to 1100 AD. And it was quite a fantastical place. There was people from all over the continent would come there. We have cacao beans from Central America. We have copper from Wisconsin. We have all kinds of principal hanging out. There's very metropolitan space, cosmopolitan space.
And so, um, w but we started and there were hundreds of thousands of logs carried from a hundred miles away to build this city. We could tell by the strong team isotopes that these logs were carried from the Chica Mountain range about a hundred miles [00:10:00] away. So we're talking hundreds of thousands of logs being carried across the desert.
Well, at this point, wasn't such a desert. And in the year 800, 980. And so what happened was we developed a cast system. We went off the path of righteousness and we started to do things that were not good to do to each other. We enslaved each other. Uh, we created hierarchies, uh, and let's just say it wasn't the high priests carrying all those logs.
And so what hap what had happened was creator said, sorry guys. This ain't right. This ain't what it is. And creators sit as a drought in 1100. And the youth, they say, too, were rising up at that time in the city and just said, no, we're done. We're done. And so the drought actually destroyed the city. And today it's a very famous archeological site.
A lot of people think it's very cool. It's like lined up with the astrological. It's like perfectly [00:11:00] aligned with stars and equinoxes and it's, you know, it's very interesting. But denette people, we don't go back there purposefully because we don't wanna metaphorically go back to those ways. We have left that place for good.
We're done with that way of living. And now if you look at Dene culture, we are all equal to each other. We're all egalitarian, all the clans are equal. So it was through the destruction of a system. And, and the archeologists will say, where'd the Chaco go? Where'd the Chuck Owens go? And it's like, you're looking at one right now.
I'm, I'm a descendant of them, and the Pueblos are a descendant of them. And so. It's sort of like, you have to understand that the system died, not the people, the system died, the people transformed through the death of that world. And so that's that, that it to me is happening on a global scale right now.
Except it's not just a drought, it's a flood, it's a quake, it's a this, it's a, that. And, and [00:12:00] our systems we're, we're at the upswing and we're about to be like, okay, this, we get to be part of the collapse. I think it's quite fun. Hard, challenging, suffering, but this is all part of us learning a really important lesson right now.
And from the ashes, hopefully just like my Chaco and ancestors, we will arise wiser and stronger as well.
Rae Abileah: Thank you. Lila. June, may, may that be. So thank you for imparting this story to us and yeah, may the unravel be fun. Yes. Um, Kira Jewel, I invite you to share.
Kaira Jewel Lingo: Thank you. I'm really appreciating the courage there from you, Lila, June of you know, let's do this.
Let's meet this moment. And, uh, we, um, we have put this into motion, right? What's happening is not unlawful [00:13:00] in, in the Buddhist sense of the dharma being law. We have created these conditions, many generations. And so what's coming to be is a result of numerous causes and conditions that have, um.
Have, uh, have come together in this moment of collapse, of, of meta crisis. And so, um, how do we really stand in this time and say there's actually as wrong as the things are that are happening. This makes perfect sense, right? The seeds were planted and this is the fruit. So now we just have to deal with this, we have to be, be with this moment and not resist it, right?
There's a, a poem that I love and, um, it's the Uribe [00:14:00] Mountain, uh, dreamer. I don't know, is that the DNE peoples Lila J.
Dr. Lyla June: Not that I know of.
Kaira Jewel Lingo: Okay. I think it's Hopi. I think it's Hopi. Hopi, yeah. Yes. Yes. Hopi. Thank you. Where the poem says, there's a river running now very fast. You know, if you try to hold onto the banks, it's gonna sweep you away.
Just go with the flow, look around, see who's there, celebrate each other. So we wanna move towards what's happening, not moving away. Just like the people of Gaza, when they would hear a bomb artillery explosion, explosion, they run towards it. That's how they're conditioned. They don't run away.
They say, oh, people need our help. Let's go help. Maybe it means they get hit in the next strike, but that's. That's the kind of example, just like the people of Minneapolis, right? Moving towards a danger, moving towards, uh, those with [00:15:00] rifles and and uh, pepper spray and, and clubs and right. So how do we move into this moment and that song by Curtis Mayfield, people get ready.
It feels like an anthem for us right now, right? How do we really do the spiritual work that is required of us to be ready to hold each other in the breakdown to soothe our own nervous systems so that we don't add more to the pain that's already here? 'cause that's really within each of our choice in every moment, right?
We're gonna, the headlines are never gonna stop horrifying us. It's gonna get worse. And we can either take that in and and let that cut us up inside and spit it out in a way that continues to harm and create, you know, [00:16:00] confusion and pain. Or we can realize, okay, this is, this is my choice, right? I am one of this whole collective, and what I do really matters.
And if we can take in, you know, not just the headlines, but as we've been saying, you know, our neighbors getting kidnapped right in front of us or brutalized, you know, children, people shot. Like how do we be present with these things and not lose our own humanity, not take ourselves out of our own belonging.
That is up to us. We can use these moments of violence, of harm, of terror, of, you know, great cynicism and corruption, to deepen our humanity, to deepen our connections with each other, to learn more about, you know, these powerful ancestral stories that Lila June just told to, you know, I think each of us needs [00:17:00] to connect with one ancestor that we really feel inspired by that did something in a time like this, because these times haven't, uh, this isn't new.
I mean, this is probably, we are more at the edge as a whole species and we've ever been, but the, this kind of turmoil is not new. So find someone who represents something for you that you can ground yourself in, right? Whoever that is. Someone who is able to stand in the face of violence and not be diminished by it.
Someone who is able to, to remind themselves and others of their humanity, even in the midst of great dehumanization, these people exist. They exist now. They have existed throughout human history, and we need to call them up. We need to be I we need to be bathing in those waters of those stories, of those spiritual practices, right, of regulating our [00:18:00] own nervous systems, of remembering our goodness, of reminding each other of each other's goodness.
One of the practices I'm doing a lot these days is the Tibetan practice of rejoicing in the good, uh, deeds of others. The images, you know, one person, a bunch of people are in a room, the light bulb goes out. Only one person changes the light bulb, but it creates light for everyone, and it's the same. One person does a wholesome action, and we can rejoice in that action, and we're all benefiting from the light.
So telling the stories of people, you know, like Rabbi Jessica, who is working, you know, hand in hand with, with clergy in Minneapolis a dear, several dear friends of mine have gone to the West Bank to be, uh, observers, to be protective, a protective presence to people to help the Palestinian people harvest their olives, to document the [00:19:00] daily, assault of the settler settlers on the Palestinian people.
They come back, they do a presentation. It's enormously, uh, humanizing for me, right? So we wanna lift up. All of these things are happening alongside all of the things that we know we don't want to be happening and, and rejoicing in those things. Is a way to, to keep ourselves spiritually strong, nourished, and to be able to endure.
This is gonna be a long journey. We need to have a way to keep refueling and these stories, these this a kind of food, a spiritual food to, to, to anchor in our ancestors, to anchor in the stories of people really acting with courage and, uh, deep compassion.
Rae Abileah: Beautiful with courage and deep compassion.
I don't think any segue is needed, but over to you, rabbi [00:20:00] Jessica, please bring us into your heart and the city where you are.
Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg: Thank you. Yeah, very honored and grateful to be here and to get to learn from these teachers, from you both. Yeah, this, this, when I heard this question about collapsing into powerlessness in the Twin Cities in the last few months, there has been just so much to do, um, that like passivity and powerlessness have not felt like in the spectrum of possibility.
Um, like there is, you know, and just what it was like here in December, January and the, up until a week ago, which I can talk about that transition is just like, truly like whistles in the streets of the alarms of. Mass, you know, federal agents, armed agents in our streets and just the like profound need of food and shelter and laundry and medical care for our neighbors and our neighborhoods.
There wasn't really [00:21:00] a passivity option. It was like you left your house and you stepped into this overwhelming crisis. And um, it was very clear, especially like within a few days of the murder of Renee Goode by federal agents that the mayor and governor, while you knows speaking, some strong words, at some press conferences would put no material.
None of their like actual political material power to stop what was happening. And so we knew like people felt like kind of, I think, felt moved in our bodies. Like before anybody had the political analysis of it, it was like, if I want my neighbors to not be kidnapped, I need to get out there, there is no one else coming to prevent that.
And I think we're moving into this time. There's still hundreds and hundreds of ice agents in the Twin Cities. It is very much like a move of [00:22:00] fascism to normalize, you know, there were 4,000, so now the 800 we're supposed to be okay with in, in this. And that is very much a tool of fascism to get us used to this level of violence.
And I think one of the things in this, and, and they've started kind of changing tactics to be more, um. Do things more at night, more in the suburbs where things are spread out more, like following people have home from their workplace and undercover cars and being more kind of like stealthy. Um, and I think part of what, um, excuse me
what I wanna say is like, it's actually like quite in some ways much easier in the overwhelming crisis moment to like come out in the street when the thing is happening in the broad daylight in front of your house. And the violence is the same amount of violence that people, especially black and brown indigenous people, poor people have been living with in, in the US since the [00:23:00] US was a thing.
And. We have just been living or like most of the US is both so segregated both around race and class and
and so isolated one, one from each other where we are instructed, especially, you know, to care for your nuclear family and your home and keep your eyes right there and not really look at what's happening to our neighbors and our neighborhood. And I think the kind of like harder question is like, how do we move, you know, like PE humans will respond like when to what is happening to their neighbor in front of their eyes.
Um, I think kind of the harder question for all of us is like, how do we live into a different, different actions when so much of the violence is happening in a different neighborhood. Or like when many of you know, like if we are separated from it, um, and if we are taught to separate ourselves from it, if that is happening to a different group of people that's happening in a different neighborhood.
And I think that's part of, you know, part of what we're, the conversations we've been having in the neighborhood and in preparation for this is [00:24:00] why this time has felt what we could call a spiritual transformation, a cultural transformation for many of us is that it is changing the way we relate to each other in our neighborhoods, in our cities.
Like it is expanded the circle of concern, like of like who I take care of and tend to for many people went from being your house and your family and your friends to. Your block and your neighborhood and people who were strangers but that you passed on the street every day. And that, that to me is a spiritual transformation and a cultural shift that like we in white supremacy and capitalism are, are taught to like ignore those, the people around us.
Um, and uh, we in the Twin Cities, at least for the last few months, people have transformed that. And the question now is like, how do we continue it? How do we spread it? And I wanna name just like in getting to introduce myself and, and this [00:25:00] place, like how important I think part of what anchors what's happened here where I'm sitting in South Minneapolis is a few miles from the Bete, which is the convergence of the Minnesota and Mississippi Rivers, which is the site of the Dakota creation story.
Um, so Dakota people indigenous land, their creation story happened at that. Life began, human life began, creation began at that place. It's a sacred place. In the early 19th century, the US government built a military, military site, Fort Snelling, across the, like on the bluff, overlooking that sacred place.
And then in 1862 a few thousand Dakota prisoners of war, which is were Dakota people were held captive in a concentration camp at Fort Snelling on that same property. The land that is Fort Snelling, um, is where the Whipple building is, which is now the place where [00:26:00] ICE operates from and where they kidnap people and take them back to is the Whipple building.
And this is also the place where, uh, Dakota. Community members here a few weeks ago created a camp across the street from the Whipple at mini, um, Coldwater Spring. And so we have this like sacred geography of both creation, um, and the violence of colonization. And where we can see a completely straight unbroken line from the occupation of this land in creating the state of Minnesota and the occupation of this land that is the federal government occupying this land right now.
And I think part of, for this question about like how do we not collapse into despair is that would be such a dishonor to the legacy and lineage of this, of the people here and this place. There's like such fierce resistance and creativity and creation [00:27:00] and honoring of this land and life here.
And, um, as, person who moved here as an adult, as a settler, as a new person to this place. It is just like my honor and duty to get to try to oppose all of the occupation here. And to, yeah, like in the same way of transforming relationships with my neighbors. And my block is transforming relationship to this place, like is in obligation and duty, um, and care for this place and these people and or the people of this, of this place.
Rae Abileah: Yeah,
Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg: that's how I'm arriving. Yeah.
Rae Abileah: [00:28:00] As a fellow Jewish clergy person, rabbi Jessica, I just wanna appreciate that. I think there are a lot of us in Jewish community who are drawing parallels between ICE and the Gestapo and how crucial it is to draw back and say, this isn't a foreign strategy imposed, but this is a strategy of repression that came from the genocide on Turtle Island and the slave patrols.
And thank you for naming that long Arc,
i'm thinking about your work, Lila June connecting the dots around the trauma, um, that settler, European settler colonizers inflicted here on this land and the traumas that they came with in their bodies from the violence in, in Europe.
I'm thinking about your essay, [00:29:00] reclaiming our indigenous European roots, um, which I think would be helpful to share for this community. Um, maybe Lisa can share that in the chat. And I'm just thinking about how we're just seeing these patterns and cycles of Christian nationalism and white supremacy playing out again and again.
And I wonder what are the, the strategies that the tools that we can engage to connect to our ancestors and to shift the paradigms that we're, that we're seeing. And, and I'm also just curious about. The wisdom that we can draw from the ancestral lineages that, that each of you come from around this kind of concept of quote, mutual aid, you know, which is sort of a buzzword, but it's actually just part of community life for forever and ever, right?
Um, feeding our neighbors, tending the sick, burying our dead, tending our ancestors. Yeah. What we can learn from those practices.
Dr. Lyla June: Yeah. I, I'm a [00:30:00] big believer in grace and forgiveness and unconditional love, which relates to my European lineage, which I'll explain in a second. But also relates to my personal upbringing.
So I basically started, I was raised in a community of, of drug dealers and drug addicts and, um. I ended up getting on drugs when I was 11 years old. So I was quite a, a hoodlum, if you will. I was running around and doing all kinds of crazy things at a very young age. I still got into Stanford University, which to this day is like, I don't know how that happened, but I think I was just like trained to have like business in the front and party in the back kind of thing.
And so I was really good at, analytical intelligence, which this education system rewards and ignores all the other kinds of intelligences, which are probably [00:31:00] arguably equally, if not more important. And I got into Stanford. I was, I was a full-blown alcoholic, full-blown drug addict. And, and my caregivers were getting me high every day when I was 13 years old.
So basically my point is. At Stanford, I did a whole suite of things that I'm, that I regret just was kind of a loose canon and before Stanford too, in high school. And so it was really challenging for me to love myself, forgive myself. And that's when my elders came to me and they said, Lila, you know, I, I, I had done, you know, things that some people would've said, you know, you need to go to jail, participating in these underground communities and black markets and things.
And the elders came to me and instead of saying, you need to go to jail, they said, I'm sorry that you were high from the [00:32:00] day you were born. From the contact spoke all around you. I'm sorry that you were abused as a young girl by the people around you in every way. Uh, I'm sorry that you are. That you experienced some of the worst things a woman can experience at these parties.
I'm sorry that you, you know, it was more of that approach. And, and not only do we still love you, but we're wondering if you would like to fight with us for the good for, for beauty and for joy and for healing. And they invited me to be a part of the army of love, part of the army of, of healing.
And that was the deepest form of forgiveness I could have ever imagined. And to take, you know, that song, a wretch like me and say like, I love you. And I was like Me. And I said, you, you? So then I started thinking about my European heritage and how we really [00:33:00] bastardize and sort of, villainize. Whiteness, which, as a white woman, I can, on my dad's side I can put on my white girl hat or my native girl hat.
I could say we as white people have done entire horrific things. That's just a fact. But here's the thing, is that, why, why did we do that? And when you really look at the history of European, of European history, we're looking at 2000 years of open warfare. We're looking at torture chambers. We're looking at the burning of women as witches for hundreds of years, drowning them alive.
We're looking at public disempowerment, we're looking at Queen Elizabeth. I saying, we're gonna hang every Celtic harpist. That's what she said. And they did. They hung, they massacred a a hundred harpists in one day, back in 1,243. So we're looking at an [00:34:00] inordinate amount. Of pain and trauma and drugs.
You know, queen Victoria that times article, right? She's the biggest drug dealer in the history of humankind with her opium wars and everything. We're talking, wait, my point is, as a European woman, I began to wander what was deeper than our trauma as white people. And I saw that there were beautiful things.
There were, if you go beneath those 2000 years, there's the goddess culture. There's, I went to France and I went to caves where there was paintings of bison and ibex and horses on the cave walls that were 17,000 years old. I looked at the Venus that was found in German soil, which is the effigy of a woman, which is meant to represent the sanctity of the earth and the sanctity of the feminine, 40,000 years old.
And I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna be tricked anymore to believe that my identity as a white woman. [00:35:00] Which I'm actually Scottish. And that, that matters, that distinction matters. And knowing our deeper, more intricate roots is important. That those roots have extreme beauty. Before the wars, before the Napoleon, before the Alexander the Grace, before all the numb skulls who gave into the illusion that anything other than love was the answer.
And so I started to, to dig into that. And the reason I bring this up on this call is 'cause I really want us to not,
not, not divide anymore, basically. That's why. And to realize that as people of color, we have an opportunity to love even the oppressor and to understand that the oppressive oppressor is a temporary identity is not who they are. It is, it is what happens to someone when they've been [00:36:00] beaten down, broken, tricked, lied to, tortured for thousands of years.
That's what happens to some that, and to have prayer and compassion for them. We could talk about the ice agents, your beautiful love letter to the ice agents, you know, what have they, what have they been through to get to that point where they would become mercenary against their own people? And, and so I'm not saying it solves everything to love our oppressors.
I'm not saying you don't fight every single day to protect people from oppression. I'm just saying, and some people argue with me on this, and that's okay. That when you fight for liberation, you are liberating everyone from the oppressed to the oppressor. And to me that matters. Some people say, I don't care what happens to the oppressor, they could jump off a cliff, but I'm sorry, every, we're all on the same boat.
Every soul matters and that our liberator liberatory struggle is for everyone. I'm sorry, I'm talking a lot. I'm gonna [00:37:00] stop there Second.
Rae Abileah: Wow. Maybe. So our liberatory struggle is for everyone, for that collective and the nuance of many of us are carrying in our lineages, both the oppressor and the oppressed in same bodies, right?
And so it's inseparable actually. And then, um, just expanding that out a little bit to what it means to our human-centric approach and our oneness with the more than human world as well. But, um, rabbi Jessica,
Dr. Lyla June: oh, one thing I just wanna say, because those elders gave me grace, I put all the drugs down.
I've been sober for 13 years and I've, I've done nothing but serve creator. 'cause I find everything else to be boring. So it's funny how when you imprison someone in that punitive model, sometimes you just dig them deeper into that identity of criminal. But if you love people and say, I'm sorry for what happened to you in a genuine way, [00:38:00] sometimes you can accidentally transform them into someone who's actually extremely helpful in the world.
And so, but I just wanna also celebrate with you all that I, the story had a good ending. I got sober. I've been sober 13 years, and I, I love every moment of it.
Rae Abileah: And sobriety looks really damn good on you. I'll just say thank, thank God. It's for your amazing work and service to creator. Yeah.
Something I, I've been thinking about a lot in our conversation here today is, is this the three a's that I've learned from recovery around awareness, acceptance, and action, and what does it look like to sit in radical acceptance of what's going on and then be in that following of creator spirit of how our action is informed rather than to be in reaction to what we're aware of.
Um, rabbi Jessica, and I know you devote a lot of your, your life around looking at stories and histories of Jewish diasporic tradition and Eastern European tradition. I'm just curious about [00:39:00] where your head is at thinking about this conversation this moment.
Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg: Yeah, I mean, what you said about kind of, our traditions having care for each other built in before the term mutual aid. I've been thinking about a lot in Jewish tra tradition, um, which is, uh, usually translated as Jewish law, literally means the way in a kind of like going, like a path, a way of going.
And it is not law in the sense of it is just like a different concept of how we carry ourselves in the world, um, I think than what we're used to in US or in kind of like European government. Judicial systems, um, which all peoples have, if you go back far enough, um, is, you know, agreements about how we, how we move in the world.
And uh, again, kind of [00:40:00] like haha is a, is a frame of mind of like how we act with each other, um, and how we act in relationship to God and the earth and other humans and ourselves and our souls where there's no separation between like how we treat other people and our spirit in, in the world. Like what, what we have now of kind of like politics and spirituality seeming like di different things, um, is I think news to most of our traditions.
You know, like if you, you know, again, if you like go back far enough as Lila June is taking us, like, there, there was not a split between just like how you. Understood the world and our place in it and holiness and the sacredness of the world and how you would treat other, other people. And I mean, there's a, you know, I can speak to some specifics of Jewish tradition and many other traditions have this of, where there's two or you know, one way to kind of sort the svo the obligations are beam la macomb between a human and [00:41:00] divine and beam laro between a human and another human.
And we're taught that we have to make things right with other people before we can ask God for forgiveness. Or at least make that attempt and people might turn us away but or not be ready to forgive us, but we make attempts before we bring it to God. And I think, yeah, there's just like so much wisdom in all our traditions about how we, how we treat each other.
Um, and I think. What I've been witnessing here, um, in these last few months has me also really thinking about how in Jewish tradition I'm a holidays person. I'm someone who's very into the year cycle and the holidays, um, and built into all of our holiday celebrations is feeding each other, is taking care of each other, is giving to Daah so that everyone has enough to make to be part of the holidays and the seasonal celebrations.
And, I will just say like taking care of each other, the way we're doing here [00:42:00] is powerful and it's also hard and exhausting and people are annoying and people, you know, and it's like, there, there's all the frustrations of just the daily grind of, of, and it's not, um, proportioned evenly across, you know, there's like disproportions even in just kind of like who is doing what, um, that we're working on.
But it's still very present. And something I've been thinking about is how in the in the Jewish year, you don't have to schedule a time to have a meal in the Jewish week. You don't have to schedule a time to have a meal together. Like Friday nights. The Shabbat table is like when we come together for a meal.
Um, and the seasonal festivals is when we gather with people further out and tell stories together. And I'm just thinking about like how much easier it is to like. Do each other's laundry and shovel each other's walks and pick each other. You know, pick up somebody, a ride from work at five 30 in the morning and the negative 10 degrees.
Like all of that is hard. And we shouldn't pretend it's not hard. Um, [00:43:00] and we shouldn't pretend that what, you know, the in the streets, that there's not danger there and challenge. And I think part of what makes that possible is eating together and singing together, which we're, we're, which there is a lot of, in the twin cities already, like it is a place where there is even among white people, settlers, like a fair amount of like cultural connection and which is like rare among white people and settles in the us.
But like there, you know, there are, there's a mayday celebration, there's a, um, really power, you know, there are times that people come together. So I don't remember your original question. I might have stayed really strayed really far from it, but I'm just, but something about the kind of traditional wisdom where.
Taking care of each other is part of our relationship with divine and Spirit, not separate from it. And also honoring our lineage and stories and feasting together makes it more, and dancing and laughing and singing together and crying and grieving together makes it more possible to show up for each other in [00:44:00] hard and exhausting ways.
And I think our traditions teach us that. Beautiful. Okay.
Rae Abileah: I'm really hearing the inseparability of it and the idea that in like whole societies and cultures there's, it's not like, oh, I have these two hours to go volunteer, but it's like I'm woven in my community. This is part of my work, my everything.
And yeah, that, thank you for bringing us
Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg: that. Can I say one, I just, I wanna shout and I'll find the article to share, but a teacher of mine, Susan Rao, who I think has maybe done a bit with, maybe known by folks here, but um, in an interview. But she heard her say like, we are remembering what people have always known, which is that we need each other to survive.
And that we are just like remembering that. And that's like, I think part of the invitation is for all of us to like remember that and not think of it as something new we have to invent or new campaign or a new strategy. It's actually just like the remembering that we need each other to survive.
Rae Abileah: Mm-hmm. [00:45:00] We need each other in breath out breath.
We get questions at sand. Um, and you may have received these as well in your life about, whether spirituality is asking us to [00:46:00] remain neutral, um, or, or to take a stand. And and I curious particularly to bring this question to you, Kyra Jewel and your.
Spiritual practice, um, and weaving of the teachings of Dr. King, how you navigate folks who, who bring this neutrality question.
Kaira Jewel Lingo: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's a question in, in a lot of the different spiritual communities and, um, one of the things that, you know just being part of a tradition started by someone like Te Han, who, um, absolutely was not neutral, who spent so much of his life speaking out and, um, trying to bring awareness about the war in Vietnam, about, many different situations of injustice and harm, but.
Again, as, as both, [00:47:00] uh, Lila, June and Rabbi Jessica have spoken to so beautifully with this lens of inter being, you know, it's it is absolutely not part of, to me a genuine spiritual path to look away, to stay on the sidelines, to to consent to evil, right? Knowing that evil is within every human heart and within our own heart.
That it's not just, you know, something external, but that, uh, to really walk a path of, of awakening and, and seeing ourselves clearly means. To engage. And so what came, what was born out of that the war in Vietnam in 1966 was the order of inter being that Han founded with 14 mindfulness trainings.
And I loved what you were saying, rabbi Jessica, the ha [00:48:00] haha. The, the agreements. It's like, I think about the mindfulness trainings as a kind of common language, right? What you spoke to Lila j of the way the elders approached you. It was like a, it was laying out a carpet of here is our ethical framework, here's how we're gonna be with each other.
We're gonna be with each other in love, not in judgment or separation or, othering. That, that's the only, you know, that's the only, that's the only way this, this whole mess can be worked through, is to see through the eyes of intervening. So, so when things are happening that are unjust, that are oppressive being spiritual doesn't mean that we, we just pray for them or we, we, um, we stay out of it because that's political.
That's not spiritual, [00:49:00] right? These are all the things that, that we, we hear in our different communities, um, that's taking sides. And that's not what this, you know, spiritual path is about. So I think we wanna be clear that like Richard Rohr says this, uh, Christian, um, Franciscan Friar, we can practice sacred criticism.
We can raise our voices with love. We can say that's wrong and I wanna be here with you. Work with you. I'm not casting you out of the human family, but what you're doing is wrong. And if you read Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham Jail, I, I read the whole thing on his birthday this year. I had never read the whole thing.
I really recommend reading the whole thing. All of us in high school. We had to read a part of it. I read that whole thing and I thought, this is one of the highest marks of, of Western literature to me, because he was [00:50:00] practicing sacred criticism. It was a letter to the clergy of the South that had criticized, uh, the civil rights movement for being agitators.
They were accusing them of being outsiders, just, rebel rousers who, who weren't actually really invested in, in this in these communities. And he took the time to say, listen, you're my brothers. You are my spiritual you siblings. What you're saying is wrong, and I'm gonna tell you why, and I'm gonna tell you with love.
And it, it's such a powerful example of looking through the eyes of inter being to say, this is wrong, and I'm still here with my arms outstretched to work with you, should you choose to. It was invitational as well as, uh, correctional. Those two things can happen together. And so, to have a, a open heart, full of love doesn't mean that [00:51:00] we don't practice fierce compassion and really get in the way.
Right. Representative John Lewis said his whole, his whole life's purpose was to get in the way, to get in the way of harm, to get in the way of complacency, to get in the way of. Of cynicism and corruption and violence, but out of love, out of deep care, out of clarity. And so we can do this.
And one of the things I wrote in this love letter to an ice agent is something that I heard Loretta Ross speak to. This is a, a powerful educator at Smith College, uh, who worked with Reverend Ct Vivian, who is one of the key members of the Civil Rights movement. And he, they were both Ct Vivian was mentoring Loretta Ross to work with white supremacists.
And he said to Loretta Ross, look, if you're gonna ask people to give up their hate, [00:52:00] you need to be there for them when they do. So it's like, how do we. Prepare ourselves to have conversations, to be in spaces with people who are full of hate. How do we disarm that hate? Some part of us has to still have an invitational presence to say, if you're ready to give this up, I will be here for you.
On the other side, I am. I am telling you no to your hate, but I'm not telling you no to your personhood. The beloved community is still ready to welcome you but disarming has to happen somehow. You know, it may not happen on our timeline. It may not happen, you know, it, it won't happen violently, right?
We're not talking about violence. But but firmness, you know, all of the creative [00:53:00] strategies of like keeping ice agents up at night around their hotels, um, blocking them from leaving their garages. I mean, this is like beautiful brilliance of spiritual, to me, that's total spiritual practice saying fierce compassion.
I love you, but I'm gonna keep you from causing harm. So I think, I don't think neutrality is an option. I don't think that's really the question. The question is how do we manifest the wisdom of intervening right in, in every action? How do we come from that place of.
Like, like Lila, June said, we're all in the same boat.
Rae Abileah: Beautiful question. How do we manifest the wisdom of inter being? Um. I, I wanna ask one more question about this inter beingness, and then we're seeing some questions starting to come in through the q and A portal. So if, if you're holding a question in your heart and you wanna place [00:54:00] it there please do so.
We can turn in a moment to community questions, but when I'm thinking about inter, inter being, I'm thinking about that underground network of empathy called mycelium and, um, these creatures that live in the soil and are communicating with each other and, and helping the forest to thrive. And, um, I was really amazed to learn recently that humans and fungi share about 50% of our DNA and we're just this interconnection is there in ways that many of us can only begin to imagine.
I'm thinking about last time I heard you speak Lila June at the Indigenous Economic Futures Summit in San Francisco. And you were saying, uh, paraphrasing, like when we can look the eel in the eye as a relative, that's when we'll truly be civilized. And, um, how, how do we find that nurture being also beyond the, the human world?
And just curious as we're, we're talking about block by block, heart by heart organizing, what can we learn from the mycelial [00:55:00] world or from the more than human world about how to, how to navigate these times? I wonder if you all have thoughts on that. Yeah. Lila, you
Dr. Lyla June: sure? Sorry, I didn't, I wanted to go first.
Um, well, I'll just say that I, I, I have a, another story, but it's shorter, so don't worry. I'll spare you my, my long winded story. This is a shorter one. They, my friends, them elders who picked me up off the ground and dusted me off and helped me. Be sober. They, um, they're, two of them are a married couple, and the wife is very dynamic.
You know, she's an indigenous woman, has a PhD kicking butt, taking names all over the planet. And the husband is also amazing, but he felt like he wasn't getting to do all this cool stuff. He was just doing quote unquote smaller stuff. And [00:56:00] I guess it was a real point of contention in their marriage where he was just feeling a little dwarfed or something and just like, why man, she's doing this huge global work and, or, you know, and like, what am I doing?
You know? And like, don't get me wrong, he was doing amazing things too. But the prayer, the, the, the answer that came to them was that, that ancestors suggested to him. He make a very simple prayer in the morning, which is Creator, may I help at least one person today? And that that was to be his prayer and that that was to help him understand that if you help at one person in a day, that you should be really grateful for that opportunity to be able to do that.
And that was a big healing moment for me because I was always kind of thinking I would be the next [00:57:00] Mother Teresa, or like the Nelson Mandela or something, and I was like, oh, I got really great and important and I'm really grateful that they taught me that teaching through that, through living that story, because it allowed me to just produce music without.
Attachment to how many views it got to write papers like the one that you put in the chat about indigenous European identity and not really care who, how many people read it. Uh, but ironically, the moment I stopped carrying what the scale was, that maybe it is okay to organize one block and one heart.
And even if you're not saving the world, you're saving someone's world. And I can attest that to have my little world saved was I can never thank them enough. You know, I can never thank the creator enough or find for reaching down into those depths and getting me out, you know? And so [00:58:00] I just wanna remind us that, that my cial microcosmic level is so precious.
So precious, and, and that's actually kind of apparently looking like what we're more designed to do. We're more designed to be local place lings than international, anything. That, that is our design, that we're inherently place lings, and that that our place is our, our gift to serve if, whether it's a family or a child or a friend, or the bug stuck in the window.
But that's our honor to serve the small things. And that, ironically, in an infinite universe, all we have is small things actually. 'cause even if you save the whole world, guess what? There's another 50 million dimensions out there to save. So you're never gonna get to the end. So just appreciate and trust that creator puts you where you are for a reason, and that whatever scale or impact it is, is perfect [00:59:00] and let go of that anxiety.
So I, I, I think that Minneapolis has you. Proven that, that even though it's a it's one city, they have changed the whole freaking course of our country's history. Arguably. And, and sometimes if you let go of the attachment and you just show up for your neighbor, maybe you will have this massive impact.
Maybe not, but either way, being appreciative for what you were able to do. Um, and I, and I have to listen to my own words there too, 'cause I still get caught up in the, oh, it has to be bigger. Bigger. But I just thought I'd share that.
Rae Abileah: Really appreciate that. And the holding of the tension of wanting to scale, wanting to have big impact amidst the colossal devastation.
Beautiful. Thank you. Also reminding us of our more than human companions, our dogs, and those sweet videos, and any ways that we can go lean on the tree and [01:00:00] connect. And, um, I did wanna name that there's some wonderful resources being shared in the chat particularly a course that Lila June's, uh, offering coming up and some opportunities for how you can donate to support communities in Minneapolis.
Rabbi Jessica has a fundraiser on GoFundMe for a school arts project that's helping students heal and process their trauma through art. Um, and the Stand With Minnesota website has, uh, resources, particularly where you can go right now to give rent support as evictions are now starting to happen. And this is crucial, urgent need, as well as there's a whole directory of resources for if you wanna support an organization that's doing work on mental health, healthcare, and trauma healing for people in Minneapolis.
And, um, the, uh, school that, uh, is hosting the course that Lila June is offering I just wanted to share one of the quotes that I saw, saw you post recently, Lila June there. It's not about me, it's not about you, [01:01:00] it's about us and the power we build together when we move as one and had me thinking about the way that birds fly in a v formation.
And take turns leading the flock and facing the headwinds. And how we, we each rotate through, right? And we do what we can when we can, understanding that we're part of that larger collective. We're gonna start to move toward a close. And I wanna read just a, a bouquet of some of the questions that have come in and then invite you each to share.
A word with us around how we can continue to navigate overwhelm, despair, and moving toward action in a spiritually engaged way. So I'll just read a few of the questions and this is in the, in the spirit of, of questions not always needing to be answered, but that questions can unlock future thoughts, journaling, con contemplation, and also in the spirit of you three our wisdom keepers who are sharing your knowledge and hearts with us today.
And each of you who are participating are also wisdom [01:02:00] keepers and have your own knowledge and stories and ways of answering these questions. So how do we confront the intrinsically evil system when even while contributing to the system by our own living and participating, when communities are facing brutal, fascist, highly coordinated attacks in a quickly descending military dictatorship?
Can intense resistance also be called for? How do we navigate violence and non-violence? How do you hold the larger lesson of long time and wisdom on a day-to-day basis? When in pain? I'd love to hear more from Lila June about forgiving and liberating those we view as a oppressor. What does that look like?
Practically speaking, in your experience, can you all speak to the role of gender and of the feminine in this time? I see for women in the screen and suppose that this is not by accident, I see women around me stepping up at the same time. [01:03:00] They're also facing huge pressures and stress and collapsing and systems presencing to all of these questions and more.
And curious about your invitations to movement as we move from this space. Who would like to begin?
Maybe Kyra Jewel.
Kaira Jewel Lingo: Sure. Hmm. So appreciate just hearing the questions and, and holding them together. So Rich and so, so clear that this is a community that has much care and love. I want to, um, maybe just invite us to, to put a hand on our hearts, these really loving hearts or two hands and just, um, connect with the beauty that's in [01:04:00] each of us, whoever we are, whatever we have done, whoever we're becoming.
To just feel that the miracle of a heart beating in our chest that's still beating,
thanking our hearts for keeping us alive, for being the seat of so much of our wisdom and our love,
and really breathing into our hearts.
And then I would just invite us to put one hand towards each [01:05:00] other and to connect through our palms with. Each other's beauty, each other's goodness, each other's courage, each other's questions, each other's despair, each other's confusion,
each other's longing. And this ache for our world, that works for all of us where we can all be equal or we can all be free.
Yeah. Thank you.
Rae Abileah: May that world be so. [01:06:00] Thank you for that practice.
Pass it over to you, rabbi Jessica, you have a word or two as we move toward close.
Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg: What has been, you know, what kind of bubbled up in me in hearing those questions. And yours, Rae, and thank you Kara Jewel, for that practice is, um, I started on my rabbinic path and in large part thinking about collective trauma and healing. And part of what I have learned over the years and where my work has and life and practice has taken me is understanding that separation from the earth and separation from each other. As a, the kind of like core, one way of expressing the core violence and trauma.
[01:07:00] That is what is shaped. So much of what we're, of the violence we're living through is like that separation thinking of ourselves as separate from the earth, separate from beings, non-human beings and from each other. And that, um, while I deeply believe in and enjoy love therapy and different healing modalities that actually like being in practice of interdependence with the earth and my neighbors, that is addressing the wound, like when I live feeding and being fed by the people around me and refusing that separation.
Like when I live a life that, that, that is. Where we wanna go. Where I wanna go with my healing modality is with my therapy, with my practice, with my prayer is feeling and living myself into interconnection. And so just like I am so grateful for this space and for Karara Juul and Lila June as, as teachers who are living this.
And I don't [01:08:00] remember this all the time, and so I'm voicing it also just to remind myself of like the healing that we seek, I believe like is there when we interweave our lives with each other, when we live in that weave in very small day-to-day, seemingly mundane ways.
So thank you for the space to be in learning about that.
And thank you for people's support of the fundraisers in Minneapolis. We are deeply grateful and needing that support.
Rae Abileah: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing with us the opportunity to be of service and to re-weave ourselves into community. Lila, June, over to you.
Dr. Lyla June: Yeah, I just want to remind us all what a great privilege it is to be of service in these times. What a great privilege it is to be alive right now, to be able to [01:09:00] metaphorically run towards those bombs, as Kira Jewel was saying.
And sometimes, literally, although I don't wish that upon anyone ever what a privilege it is to be a warrior for the creator and a warrior for the earth. And by a warrior, I don't mean someone who takes life, but someone as you know, sitting bull famously said, someone who protects life and someone who takes care of the children and the elders and the community.
And so to remember that, that bloodshed is temporary. Suffering is temporary. The suffering that we and, and our, our beloved kin experience here is temporary. But what, what is, what remains what only can sustain this world is love, and that is eternal. The rest kind of comes and goes, like leaves on a tree, [01:10:00] but the trunk is love.
And even our beloved friends who have signed up to be ice agents, God bless them, you know, they will come back to that trunk too. And even the ones who are the most lost, they will come back to that trunk. And what a joy it is that we get to maybe not even succeed, but even just try. Just come here and try to bring people back to that trunk.
That's a huge privilege. And I've heard that there's souls lining up around the world trying to get in here to be human, because you learn how to love here unconditionally. In the spirit world. It's easy, everything nice and pretty and perfect, and it's easy to love there. But here you have to love the, the worst of things.
And, and to go into those, those fields of sorrow, those fields of confusion and to bring [01:11:00] love, the bouquet of love to that place is just such a, such an honor. And we get to do that whether it looks like, um, standing up for immigrant communities or it looks like creating a plan for the ecosystem in your area, or it looks like.
Hosting a Zoom call, like Zaya and Mauricio are using all of their privilege, all of their power, and putting it at the feet of this. Like, that's so cool. Thank you guys for doing that. Whether it's working together with local indigenous communities for a land back project, whether it's hosting grieving circles I'm really fascinated by the grief, uh, ceremonies lately.
Helping us grieve and welcoming grief so it can be released, whatever it is that we get to do. Or whether it's taking care of your grandmother for a few years before she [01:12:00] passes from flesh. It's such a joy and it's such an honor and to have fun, 'cause it's the difference between a dance floor and a front line, there's a very thin line between the two and, um.
We gotta dance on the front lines and enjoy it, enjoy each other's company. And, um, if we go down, you know, like they say, we go down swinging and that, that is an honor. And that we, we stand among those who fought for something meaningful. And I think that just to never forget, you know, what a what a what a pleasure and a and a joy and a privilege that is no matter how many nicks and scratches we get along the way, that those nicks and scratches are also our teachers.
Those are also our gifts to teach us things. And I know that's easy for [01:13:00] me to say, and it's when you're in the middle of getting nicked, it's not so easy to say, but just to trust that creator will lead you out of that, into a good place. And that those seasons, those hard seasons are hard. They will always become some of your greatest teachers and that they will lead you to not so hard seasons.
And that, and that we are here and we love you. And your circle in the spirit world is always there for you and to love yourself unconditionally. As much as you love the world unconditionally, forgive yourself for all of the dumb things we do. Let you let the light shine on your skin and, and embrace the joy of this fight.
That's what I would wanna say is my closing words.
Rae Abileah: That is the most profoundly beautiful way to close out our time together. Thank you, Lila, June. I, um, yeah, thank you and, uh, that litany of ways to be of service. So much pleasure and so much joy. May we each [01:14:00] find what is, what is ours to do and do it with, with that level of joy and gratitude to creator for the opportunity to be of service.
You mentioned letting the light shine on our skin. I would be remiss not to mention what's very obvious, which is that the winter sun has suddenly appeared in the course of this conversation and is right in my face as I'm speaking with you all in a really wild, uncanny way. That just reminds me of how in cahoots the more than human world is with us all the time.
All the time when we show up and we pay attention to it. Friends, we're gonna come to a close. I want to highlight a link that, uh, Lisa has graciously put in the chat, which is an invitation to you all to join us, um, for a four part webinar called De Decolonial Mental Health Practices with Dr. Sama Jabber, who will be joining us from Palestine.
She's a renowned psychiatrist and is talking about collective trauma and what can we learn from her Palestinian clients and community, [01:15:00] not as a case study, but as learnings that are, uh, universal and connected, uh, about how to provide mental health care in ways that really serve communities in crisis.
Uh, that series is starting this Sunday, March 1st, and it continues weekly on Sundays for four weeks. And you can register in the link to the chat. And there are ample scholarships available if money is an issue. Um, we look forward to seeing you there or at the next community conversation gathering. And in all the ways that we weave together in this global sand community, thank you for showing up for yourself, for each other.
To bear witness to these stories is to take on a responsibility to carry them into our actions and our lives, and we love to hear about how that's moving for you. Thank you, profound gratitude to Zaya and Maurizio for calling this conversation together. Thank you Lila. June RA Jewel and Rabbi Jessica for your generous offerings from the heart and to [01:16:00] the full tech team behind the scenes.
Carlos and Sarah and Lisa and everyone on the Sand Team who makes events like these possible, what a joy to weave together. Thank you and go in love.
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