#67 The Dreaming Path: Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon

Join SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo in conversation with Aboriginal elders and authors Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon for a colorful community conversation, “On the Dreaming Path,” where we’ll explore some of the profound teachings shared in their latest book.


"Uncle" Paul Callaghan is an award-winning author and accomplished speaker. He has qualifications in a very diverse range of disciplines and a PhD in creative practice. He is also an Aboriginal story teller from the land of the Worimi people who has spent many years “out bush” listening and learning. He has life experience in many industries, Aboriginal culture and heritage and Aboriginal community services.


"Uncle" Paul Gordon is a Ngemba man. Born in Brewarrina, he grew up on the Barwon River in Northwestern New South Wales, Australia. Since 1983 he has spent most of his time with the Old Men learning about country and lore. Uncle Paul has dedicated his life to teaching and working with communities throughout Australia to support learning through lore and culture. For the past 15 years, he has been leading camps and workshops for Indigenous and non-Indigenous people to reconnect to culture. As a traditional knowledge holder and custodian of Aboriginal lore, he continues to share as part of his obligation to thousands of years of Aboriginal culture.


The underpinning foundation of the book is his journey through depression and the role Aboriginal culture, spirituality and philosophy had in not only enabling him to recover, but also empowering him to live life by his truth rather than everybody else’s expectations. The book has a number of exercises and models based on his experience aimed at assisting people from all walks of life to build the courage and skills to live a life of purpose, choice and wellbeing. You will find it is a combination of styles including textbook, self help, Aboriginal history, Aboriginal philosophy, Aboriginal spirituality and an autobiography of his journey through depression.


The Dreaming Path: Indigenous Thinking to Change Your Life


  • 0:00 – Introduction
  • 4:33 – Dreamtime
  • 13:00 – Aboriginal Lore
  • 20:26 – A Dreamtime Story
  • 32:16 – Importance of Relationality
  • 41:26 – 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice Referendum